Skip to main content

tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  December 10, 2012 5:00pm-6:00pm PST

5:00 pm
year. would a less violent game be less exciting meaning fewer viewers and less money? or would it save the nfl from extinction? did you know the nfl is facing thousands of lawsuits from former players who suffered concussions and other traumas while playing? and while it may have been cost effective for the league to pay out settlements, it's going to get increasingly expensive as more and more players are filing lawsuits. some argue the nfl can't survive if they don't play more violent football. americans award the violence and without it, no matter how shocked we are when it happens off the field, when it happens on the field, we like it, and the league won't survive without it. thanks for joining us. good evening, everyone. we begin as we do everythi nigh keeping them honest. looking for facts, not supporting democrats or republicans. our goal is just report, finding out facts and the truth.
5:01 pm
we did that last week. again, the more we look into it, the more we find people in powerful and influential places saying things that just don't square with the fact. it's about a u.n. treaty that failed to be ratified by the senate. a treaty that was meant to encourage more countries to be more like the u.s. on equal rights of the disabled. if other countries adopted better treatment of their disabled, americans who visited or lived in other countries would also benefit. 125 countries ratified the treaty. it was supported by george bush, signed by the current president, and has support from both sides of the aisle like john mccain and bob dole. he was wheeled onto the senate floor, you can see, for the vote he hoped to see the treaty ratified. instead after pressure from special interest groups, 38 republicans vowing to support the treaty voted no. one was the home school legal defense association. the hslda, the powerful lobby
5:02 pm
group around the country whose leader you're about to meet. they have some very strong things to say about the treaty, but the notion was basically this, if it were to pass, they said, the u.n. treaty would somehow let the u.n. mandate how parents of disabled kids in america cared for their children. americans among the center is echoing that center is mike lee of utah. keeping them hahnsh, though, when i asked him to specify how this u.n. influence might manifest itself, here's the answer he gave. >> can you name any other u.n. treaty that has forced changes in u.s. law? >> i didn't come prepared to cite supreme court precedence on this point but it's a well -- >> what you're saying is hypothetical. you're using a bunch of hypot t hypotheticals saying this is going to force abortion rights for people overseas. i mean, some groups are saying children with glasses are going be taken from their parents. you're using all these very scary hypotheticals. you can't even cite one case
5:03 pm
where a u.n. treaty has ever impacted u.s. law? >> nowhere of one person who is saying children with glasses are going to be taken away tromtheir parents. the article 7 interest is that the best interests of the child would be injected into the decision of how to care for a child. >> again, you can't name one u.n. treaty that has ever had an impact on u.s. law? >> well, i can't name one u.s. treaty that has been the deciding factor in a decision. it may well happen. i didn't come prepared to cite supreme court precedence. >> about the eye glass thing i mentioned, the head of the group we'll mention it in a minute, they also said they would dictate how many handicapped spot were in parking lots and how americans in geneva could change the law.
5:04 pm
but the evidence doesn't stand up to scrutiny from richard thornburg, himself the father of a disabled son. >> it has no effect whatsoever within this country. it gives no jurisdiction to the u.n. over any individual or any government within the united states. i am puzzled as to where these strong objections come from. >> keep in mind, that was the nation's former top law enforcement official and a life-long republican who believes there's nothing to the charges of the u.n. disability treaty. michael ferras is making a lot of the charges. he's chairman of the home school legal association and also chairman of patrick henry college. he also made the claim about children with eyeglasses. here is what he said. >> the definition of disability is not defined in the treaty and so my kid wears glasses. now they're disabled. now the u.n. gets control over them. >> so u.n. bureaucrats could get control over his child if they
5:05 pm
decided to define disability as kids with glasses. so keep that sound bite in mind. it came up earlier tonight when i spoke with michael. >> mr. ferras, you have been saying this u.n. treaty would allow u.n. bureaucrats based in geneva to take control of american kids. you said under this treaty the u.n. could define disability as kids who wore eyeglasses and therefore they would come under u.n. control. that's made up, though. how can you say that? >> well, first of all, i didn't say those things exactly. there are two different threads of the argument. >> you actually did say that. you were on a radio program and i have the quote. >> let me give it to you straight. the eyeglasses comment was to illustrate the fact there's no definition of disability in the treaty. >> right, it's left up to each country to define it as per domestic law. >> no, it is not. because it's an evolving concept and it will be defined by the u.n. committee of experts that implement the treaty. >> according to senate foreign
5:06 pm
relations treaty, it leaves it up to each state to define disability under domestic law. >> maybe that's what they said, but that's not what the vienna conventional law says. it's a super treaty that overrides inconsistent provisions in domestic law. under the vienna convention law of treaties no nation's law ever supersedes a crety e treaty in e international arena. you need to understand the basics of international law that is apparently different for you and people who speak about it. >> i actually understand it quite well and there's advice and consent that the senate negotiated and put on this treaty, which specifies this does not aument eralter u.s. la way. this treaty does not supersede u.s. law? >> it doesn't have such a broad reservation you're talking about. there's a disability definition that tracks it to a degree, but as a general proposition, we need to understand that the
5:07 pm
treaty is a law. it's not a declaration. >> what treaty -- what u.n. treaty has forced a state or taken over -- what u.n. bureaucrat has control over a u.s. child under any treaty? the >> the hague convention and the international kidnapping which has a wild trial. i litigated a case this summer where an american mom lost her ability to litigate for her children and her children were sent to zimbabwe where her canadian husband took refuge. that's a case i litigated this summer under that treaty. the supreme court in a case i wrote an amicus brief in and they specifically cited my brief dealing with juvenile justice used the u.n. right to dictate federal law. >> but they haven't signed on. >> surprise, surprise, that's even more my point. >> you also claim if the u.s. signed on to this treaty, we would be, quote, signing up to be an official socialist nation.
5:08 pm
>> that's true. >> this was a treaty negotiated under president bush originally in 2001. john mccain supports it, former attorney general richard thornburg. you honestly say they want to be a socialist nation? >> the treaty is economic and social economics at its core. they refuse to adopt the covenant in the '60s. the soviet bloc has adopted those treaties. the united states has never, ever adopted one of these treaties -- >> you think george bush wants this to be a socialist nation? >> we have a big national debt because of the spending patterns of republicans and democrats -- >> i'm just curious. john mccain wants socialism. >> i'm sure you have more than once criticized president bush for not having the capacity to understand the issues. i don't think he understood this particular issue. >> you also claimed this will ban spanking in america, it will determine how many parking
5:09 pm
spaces a church has set aside for disabled people. again, there is not anything in this treaty that changes u.s. law. in fact, a lot of this is based on the americans with disabilities act which is the gold standard which i think you even support. and it doesn't alter u.s. law. >> anderson, you're just wrong about that. i have an ll and public international law from the university of london. >> i'm sure you're much smarter than i. >> i have studied this subject. if you wrote that statement, if john kerry wrote that statement on an international law exam where i teach that subject, i would flunk you. >> but you're alleging somehow some u.n. committee based in geneva is going to have the power to change u.s. law. as you know under this treaty, that u.n. committee has -- gives non-binding recommendations to countries about how to treat disabled people. they have no power to change law. thd the treaty, it's left to each country to apply the term
5:10 pm
disability consistent with its own law. >> i'm going to give you a video clip from a u.n. hearing held the day before the senate vote where in the u.n., in new york city, a disability advocate said that we need to make sure that we implement this treaty as a superseding document. that means that it overrides national law. and the idea that you're portraying about this, basically, from watching your video clips frk when a democrat says something, that's a fact. when a conservative says something, that's an -- >> actually, no. you're saying richard thornburg is democrat because we had had him on the show. he's a father of a disabled child studying this for 30 years and has a personal stake in this and he says you're completely making this up. >> i say he's absolutely wrong and he doesn't have the degree in international law. i do. i teach international law. he simply is wrong about that. he can say what he wants to say, but he's an advocate for the treaty. i'm telling you it's a matter of reality -- >> so the recommended conditions that were approved by the senate
5:11 pm
foreign relations committee and attached to this treaty that restrict the power of the treaty and this resolution that includes the reservation of conditions that limit and clarify the extent of any obligations this treaty might entail, are you saying they have no impact? my understanding is that the supreme court has ruled that these kind of conditions from a senate committee which are attached to this committee trump any language in that committee? >> you're absolutely right about that point. if an rud is correctly written, it will limit the effect of the treaty. for example, the non-self-executed provision of the treaty. it was well written, it will work. it will stop an american court from implementing the treaty without first being pursued and in a proper legislative fashion either of the political branches of government. that doesn't mean that the united states is not obligated to obey the treaty. >> i just don't see any real -- you can cite specific cases
5:12 pm
where individualed have argued in court or judges have used u.n. conventions, but i don't see any u.n. bureaucrats ruling, changing the laws of states and ruling over american children. >> well, it's because you don't open your eyes. the most distressing thing, how often the senators spent time praising themselves and praising each other and praising bob dole for their work on this rather than actually reading the document and talking about the articles within the treaty. >> i think most of them were praising bob dole not just for his service in the senate but also his service to the country which is why he's disabled, but i appreciate your point. thank you for being on. >> that's one view. we had to trim that interview for time, but you can see the entire conversation online at as for what he said about former attorney general mr. thornburg, here is his reaction. quote, my service as attorney general of the united states under president ronald reagan and president george h.w. bush
5:13 pm
provides a solid grounding for my opinion on the interpretation of this treaty. it's absurd that i would support a treaty that would adversely impact the well being of my own son. he continues to write that america continues to be a leader on this important human rights issue. let's dig deeper and talk to jeffrey toobin. what's your reaction to what he says today in. >> first, it's important to put into political context what he's saying. hatred of the united nations is now a bedrock principle of the conservative movement in the country. so anything relating to the united states -- the united nations, even something as uncontroversy as this treaty, draws objections based on hypothetical and as far as i can tell, extremely far fetched ideas. >> he said there are many cases of u.n. treaty becoming u.s. law. u.n. treaty superseding u.s. law, becoming the law of the land. >> a, not true. as far as i am aware in any
5:14 pm
significant case. >> he cites a multitude of cases. >> i was familiar with one of the cases he cited, the bond case, which was not in the supreme court about the treaty obligation to the united states at all. >> the united nations? >> the united nations. the treaty obligations of the united states under the united nations at all. the other point is that the congress has said, john kerry, who is chairman of the foreign relations committee, has said there's no rights created to sue in an american court based on this treaty. you can't wave this treaty and go into an american courtroom and say we're going to take your kids away. >> the thing he keeps saying and a lot of supporters of this keep saying is a u.n. bureaucracy, a u.n. bureaucrat based in geneva, which they keep pointing out, is going to have power over an american child. that just does not seem to be the case. >> it is gnaw true. it is simply an invented
5:15 pm
paranoid fantasy about what could happen. which is contrary to everything in this law. as you pointed out, this is not some internationalist left-wing conspiracy. this is a very much a bipartisan idea. george w. bush, rob dole, richard thornburg, not exactly a list of socialists. they're all for this treaty. and that's because it's really a very simple, basic idea. >> supporters of this u.n. treaty say because the senate has these ruds, these advice and consent things that limit the scope and define the scope of it, that is a protection that this treaty would ever be used to try to change u.s. law. he says that's not the case. >> it is the case because these objections that he was raising, they were raised at the committee level. and what the sponsors of the thety did was, okay, we don't think this is a legitimate
5:16 pm
concern. but just to be doubly sure that we know what this treaty means, they put in essentially amendments that say you can't go to an american court and try to enforce this treaty. the u.n., no one can do that. so again, it's a paranoid fan fantiacy. it's not reality. >> are there cases where -- that you know of where u.n. bureaucrats, you know, not even english-speaking u.n. bureaucrats living in geneva or switzerland have control over u.s. kids somehow or changed the laws of the united states? >> control over kids, control over state law, control over the american educational system, never, absolutely not. >> all right. jeff toobin, thanks. >> let us know what you think. we're on twitter right now. @andersoncooper. >> are republicans and democrats looking for a way of climbing down from the fiscal cliff. there are signs of give, perhaps, on either side, but can
5:17 pm
either side go far enough without losing the support of their core supporters? [ female announcer ] what if the next big thing, isn't a thing at all? it's lots of things. all waking up. connecting to the global phenomenon we call the internet of everything. ♪ it's going to be amazing. and exciting. and maybe, most remarkably, not that far away. we're going to wake the world up. and watch, with eyes wide, as it gets to work. cisco. tomorrow starts here.
5:18 pm
[ sniffs ] i took dayquil but my nose is still runny. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't treat that. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your runny nose. [ breathes deeply ] awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is. that's the cold truth! we believe the more you know, the better you trade. so we have ongoing webinars and interactive learning, plus, in-branch seminars at over 500 locations, where our dedicated support teams help you know more so your money can do more. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our teams have the information you want when you need it. it's another reason more investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade.
5:19 pm
5:20 pm
welcome back to raw politics just now. 22 worries days until america goes off the fiscal cliff. there are signs even three weeks out that neither side really wants to push it to the very end. president obama today speaking at a truck engine plant in michigan said he's willing to give a little but he's not willing to compromise when it comes to taxes on the wealthiest americans. as for house speaker boehner who he met with yesterday at the white house, he said the gop offer remains the same, no rate hikes. however, there were more signs over the weekend that republican unity may be cracking a little
5:21 pm
bit with lawmakers who want to take the tax issue off the table asap. >> there are a growing group of folks looking at this and realizes we don't have a lot of cards as it relates to the tax issue before year end. we have one house, that's it. the presidency and the senate is in the democrats' hands. a lot of people are putting forth a theory. i actually think it has merit. i'm beginning to think that's the best route for us to take. >> what we ought to be working on is the other 93% because even if you do what he wants to do on tax breaks, you only affect 7% of the deficit. what we have done is spend ourselves into a hole. we're not going to raise taxes and borrow money and get out of it. so will i accept the tax increase as a part of a deal to actually solve our problems? yes. >> a number of recent polls show americans by and large agree. the latest from george washington university, 60% favor
5:22 pm
raising taxes on households earning more than the$250,000 a year. somewhat more problematic, the compromise on entitlements. they say no to raising medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67. joining me now to talk about the possible outlines of the deal and hopefully pronounce the words correctly as well as the potential landmines, ari fleischer and van jones. apart from my bad grammar, how close do you think president obama and speaker boehner are to a deal? and from your perspective, is a bad deal better than no deal? >> a bad deal is a bad deal and we shouldn't accept it. republicans have the problem that all of the polls show the vast majority of american people, and people who have done well in america should do well by america and start paying america back. this tax break, even george bush didn't want it to be permanent.
5:23 pm
somehow, republicans have gotten hung up on this one thing, turning tax law into theology. they can't let it go. it has united the democratic party against them, and now mostly american people are on the debate. we can't talk about spending until we get out of the corner. >> how much of the republican opposition is based on principle, to the raising of taxes on the weltiest is based on principle and how much is based on a fear that they may face a challenge from more conservatives in the party? >> i think it's impossible to know the second one. there are a number of people in potentially vulnerable situations where they have to look over their right shoulder and worry about this, but i think the reason this is so strongly felt by republicans is the belief if you raise taxes, the government is going to spentd the money anyway or waste the money. raising taxes is not a good answer. i think that's why you think republicans so theological about it, if you will, for such substantive reasons. but the numbers don't give us
5:24 pm
hope. if you raise the taxes on the rich, let's concede it's done. you bring in about $600 billion over ten years. you keep the tax rates the same way on everyone else, that costs the government $4 trillion over ten years the way cbo counts it. so anderson, this debate has nothing to do with getting our fiscal house in order. it's about raising taxes on the rich. it's hard for republicans to resist it. looks like the president is going to be somewhat successful. >> i don't know if i agree with you 100% on this, ari. i think the american people are pretty smart about this. i think if you look at where the american people are, it used to be a while ago people were afraid to say the word tax in america because grover norquist had the whole country afraid to say the word. americans now are saying, listen, we want to be, to coin a phrase, conservative. if you have a war, you have to pay for that war. if you're going to do stuff like the republicans did with the medicare prescriptions, you have to pay for it.
5:25 pm
i think the republicans now look like a something for nothing party almost. >> we have to pay for the stuff that we actually took. >> to be consistent, you should raise the rates on everybody back to the clinton rates. what you're doing with that theory is making 2% of the country pay all of the nation's bills. >> that's not right. >> hold on a second. if you were principled about what you said, the 10% rate would go up to 15%. the 25% rate would go up, too. all the rates would go up. >> that would be a bad idea. let me tell you why that would be a bad idea. the 98% of americans if you raised taxes on them, it would hurt the economy. the top 2%, raising taxes on them is not going to change their economic behavior very much so you can actually begin to get some of that revenue back. the rest of the country, if you hit them with that $2,000, $3,000 -- >> people paying their bills. >> do you think raising it on the wealthiest will change their behavior? >> of course it will change their behavior, anderson.
5:26 pm
we're already seeing it right now. people are moving their charitable contributions. there will be less going out in 2013. it always does. the question is what impact will it have on the economy and job creation and growth. my belief is it's going to hinder it. this debate is a false debate because the real debate is going to be the one that comes over spending. that's where we're really putting a damper on america's growth. we cannot go forward with trillion dollar deficits. and raising the taxes on the rich is not going to solve the deficit problem. this is too small. >> and van, as a democrat, do you acknowledge the spending cuts are necessary as well? >> i think we're going to do something about spending. but if you look at where americans are in their great wisdom looking, we ask should you give corporate welfare to oil companies, they so no, cut spending there. you shouldn't be giving so much money to defense contractors. there are places to cut, but we can't have a discussion on where to cut because republicans have
5:27 pm
gotten themselves so far out on this one tiny issue. they want to fight and die on the hill, i think it's bad for them and bad for the country. >> anderson, it used to be about balance. there's nothing balanced. >> this is balanced. >> we can't even begin to talk -- >> we can -- >> hold on. hold on. you don't get to interrupt all the time. the president used to say we need a balanced plan that includes taxes and spending. now they're saying we can't talk about spending until we have st taxes. that's a change in position. that's one of the reasons the mood in washington is so bad. the president has the leverage, the upper hand, but he's also poisoning the well. >> the final thought from you, van, and then we have to go. >> i think the president is taking a balanced approach. we are talking about spending cuts. the problem i think we have right now is where we can cut, and where we can come together and cut, we can't even have that conversation because republicans are taking such an extreme position. i think americans are wise about wanting the people who have done well in america to do well by america and start paying america
5:28 pm
back. >> thank you. amazing medical news ahead. an experimental treatment that brought a little girl back from the brink of death. that's the little girl. last spring, it looked like emma was going to lose thir battle against leukemia, and doctors used, get this, a strain of hiv to save her life. dr. sanjay gupta join eeds me ahead to explain. questions? anyone have occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating? yeah. one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. approved! [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'. [ female announcer ] live the regular life. capella university understands back from rough economic times. employees are being forced to do more with less. and the need for capable leaders is greater than ever. when you see these problems do you take a step back,
5:29 pm
or do you want to dive right in? with a degree in business from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to go further in your career than you ever thought possible. let's get started at
5:30 pm
alriwoah! did you get that? and...flip! yep, look at this. it takes like 20 pictures at a time. i never miss anything. isn't that awesome? uh that's really cool. you should upload these. i know, right? that is really amazing. the pictures are so clear. kevin's a handsome devil that phone does everything! search dog tricks. okay, see if we can teach him something cool. look at how lazy kevin is. kevin, get it together dude cmon, kevin take 20 pictures with burst shot on the galaxy s3. does the movie take tpeople too far and distort the truth? i'll speak with peter bergen who
5:31 pm
served as an unofficial adviser on the film coming up.
5:32 pm
tonight, really fascinating medical news to tell you about. a little girl who last spring was dying of leukemia is now
5:33 pm
healthy with no signs of cancer. her name is emma and the fact she's alive today is remarkable. even more astounding is how doctors were able to bring her back from the brink of death. they used disabled hiv, the virus that causes aids, to basically reprogram her immune system to kill cancer cells. hiv. it seems counterintuitive to most of us that a virus as deadly as hiv or ultimately deadly could actually help save someone's life. it's a very experimental treatment. it's developed by researchers at the university of pennsylvania. they tested it on a dozen patients and today they're presenting their latest results. emma was one of the first children to get the treatment. before it saved her, it nearly killed her. is. a very, very difficult treatment to undergo, but seven months later, she's still in complete remission. i fuind this incredible, this little girl, emma whitehead, alive today because of this theiromy. how does this actually kill the cancer? >> this is something people have
5:34 pm
been talking about for some time and have used in forms, but in a nutshell, it's teaching the body's immune system that cancer is foreign, bad, and should be attacked using the body's immune system. different than using chemotherapy, you take out some of the body's immune cells and basically reprogram them. you put genetic material into them that teaches the cells attack the cancer. what's interesting here is they're using a deadened form of the hiv virus to transport that genetic material into cells. hiv very good to getting to cells. they're putting it as a piggy back onto the virus and they're putting the t-cells onto the body and it attacks the cancer. the person oftentimes gets very sick. their immune system gets blown up so it's a long hospitalization, a tough hospitalization, but in her case, it's remarkable. >> what her prognosis and how did the other patients do?
5:35 pm
>> this is new, and that's what's fun about reporting on this stuff. this is in part how medical history is made. what we know is he's doing well right now. there aren't many patients who have had this done. i wrote down some of the numbers. they have tried this in adults. three adults have had complete remission. no signs of disease. these are patients for whom nothing was working anymore. four adults improved but did not have complete remission. there was one other child who improved for two months and then relapsed and also two adults for whom it didn't work at all. still trying to figure out are there some people for whom this is going to work better and what is the timing? how quickly after the treatment do you expect it to work. these are unanswered questions still. >> if they can duplicate the results, could the treatment eventually replace bone marrow transplants? >> that's what they're thinking and hoping. we're not there yet. first, the financials, this is about $20,000 for a treatment which is not cheap by any means,
5:36 pm
but is a lot cheaper than a bone marrow transplant. and the other thing, as they get more results back, they'll answer more questions. think about this, if you have these cells in your body that are now trained to recognize that cancer, if the cancer were to ever come back, it is possible that these cells could immediately attack it. so it's kind of almost like a cancer vaccine. again, it's early in the studies, but imagine that, anderson. if you had these cells in your body, you could basically say you wouldn't get that cancer again. >> so other teams have been using t-cells, i know, to target not just leukemia, other cancers. you saw this type of therapy recently at md anderson. are they seeing similar results? >> they are, and i tell you, i visited with one of the first patients getting the therapy. this is brian, a baseball coach from the midwest. he has stage four melanoma. melanoma that has spread throughout his body. there aren't any good options or long-term options certainly to treat this. what you're watching there is
5:37 pm
them actually doing the same thing. they're removing lots of blood. then eventually, they're going to take the t-cells specifically, and they grow them with a growth factor and add other immune cells. eventually, you have this cancer concoction they put back into the body. again, patients get really sick because you're essentially just ramping up the immune system. sometimes 100, 1,000 times normal, but once they get through that, sometimes with the help of medications, they can have pretty astonishing results. >> incredible. sanjay, appreciate the explanation. a lot more happening including controversy over a movie that tell the story of the decades long manhunt for osama bin laden. it's raking in awards and raising questions about a scene involving torture. did the movie go too far and did it distort the facts? peter bergen joins me ahead and so does bob beahr. d save your m. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up
5:38 pm
from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. it's just common sense. alrightcharlie! photo. stop punching your brother. he asked me to! hey, sarah, stop texting, and look at your dad. i can do two things at once. ok, well just look at your dad, so he can get this shot. i'm going to be a ninja! (chaos & noise) got it. what? yeah, i got it, come here. nobody move, especially you, charlie. how'd you do that? automagically. let's eat. exclusively at at&t. buy any samsung galaxy smartphone, and save up to $200 off an eligible samsung tablet. of washington about the future of medicare and social security. anncr: but you deserve straight talk about the options on the...
5:39 pm
table and what they mean for you and your family. ancr: aarp is cutting through all the political spin. because for our 37 million members, only one word counts. get the facts at let's keep medicare... and social security strong for generations to come. and social security strong for generations to come. why they have a raise your rate cd. tonight our guest, thomas sargent. nobel laureate in economics, and one of the most cited economists in the world. professor sargent, can you tell me what cd rates will be in two years? no. if he can't, no one can. that's why ally has a raise your rate cd. ally bank. your money needs an ally.
5:40 pm
the australian radio hosts behind the prank call to a british hospital speak out about the tragic suicide of the nurse who took the call. what they're saying to her family when we continue.
5:41 pm
5:42 pm
major film critics are raving about a new movie that is a fictional account of the decades long man hunt for osama bin laden. it's a code for half past midnight. it's not opened in theaters but it's already pulling in awards and is expected to be an oscar contender. >> you riley believe this story? osama bin laden? >> yeah. >> the movie is also stirring up controversy because of a torture sdeen. the movie contains some extremely graphic scenes of a cia officer interrogating a detainee. other abuse and torture is shown in detail, leaving in doubt does
5:43 pm
it go to too far and is it accue in the interrogation and torture techniques in the hunt for osama bin laden and finding osama bin laden. peter bergen was an unofficial adviser in the him. his new book is "man hunt." he joins me now with former cia officer bob behr. you have seen the movie, i have seen it as well. you were an an paid adviser. what did they get wrong? there was a lot of reporter the screen writer did to kind of suss out the facts. in terms of the torture sequence were that right in that waterboarding led to the information that led to bin laden. >> not according to the senate intelligence committee. the film is a great film and it covers a lot of themes about the war on terror and the decade-long struggle against al qaeda. as a sort of overall picture, there's a lot of things that are good about the film. but the fact that is senate intelligence committee which has
5:44 pm
spint three years investigating the claim that coercive techniques led to bin laden amongst other claims find there was no, basically no truth to that. they haven't released their official report yet, but the heads of the committee have publicly stated this several months ago. >> in the film, the first 20 or 30 minutes, probably 20 minutes, is a rather extended interrogation sequence, and some of the techniques are -- would be classified as torture, i guess it's an arguable point, but waterboarded used to be considered torture. you took issue with how the interrogations were portrayed in an early version. >> we saw an early cut similar to what you saw, anderson, and i said the thought the scenes were overwrought. and he said they turned down some of the scenes. certainly, people were abused in cia custody who were members of al qaeda, but they weren't
5:45 pm
beaten to a kulp. the filmmakers behaved in a sensible way in the fact they have taken outside advice and they did a lot of reporting. and it is after all a movie. that said, half an hour of the film is very, very visceral and viewers are going to walk away with the feeling, i think wrongly, that torture somehow netted bin laden. i think that's the bottom line they'll come away with in the film. >> bob, do you see danger in hollywood buying this part of the story? >> absolutely. this is the version we're going to be living with for the next however many years, that torture found us bin laden, and it's just not true as peter said. i can't emphasis this enough. he was found with traditional sources, traditional espionage, the way things, with detective work, it had nothing to do with torture. i have seen no credible version of that someone was broken, gave
5:46 pm
up bin laden's location, and the problem is the next time we go into a war, people are going to have this movie on their minds. as good as the movie is, you know, as graphic as it is, and the rest of it, it's simply not the way it happened. and in that sense, it's not helpful. >> the movie portrays the cia analysts and also cia officers in the field and then obviously special forces. but in reality, there was an fbi component and a lot of contention between the fbi and cia about it. >> sure -- >> go ahead. >> bob, go ahead. >> the fbi is against torture. it can't take the evidence and take it into court. an fbi agent intearicated khalid shake muhammad disagreed that torture got anyone anywhere. they're completely opposed to it. the cia was reluctant to use torture, too. it was the pentagon and also a
5:47 pm
mix. >> do you fear this becomes the narrative, that people will see this and think, okay, waterboarding got bin laden? >> yeah. i mean, i think that's the bottom line. i don't think that's not the filmmaker's intent, and they have many other scenes in the movie about how the relationship with the foreign intelligence office derived real leads, the name of bin laden's courier, and they tracked down the cell phones he was using and how human spies on the ground in pakistan tracked him to where he was hiding with bin laden and after that. but at the end of the day when somebody pulls something out of a file and it's from foreign intelligence, that's not a dramaticaldr inherently dramatic scene as opposed to waterboarding and all of the things that happened in the beginning of the film. i think a lot of people are going to walk away saying hey, torture got us bin laden. >> peter and bobering thanks very much. you can read peter's op-ed on
5:48 pm
this. >> the death of jenni rivera, killed in a plane crash in mexico. you may not have heard of her. she has millions of fans. we'll rermember her life next. l. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] it doesn't have a decongestant. no way. [ male announcer ] sorry. alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms plus has a fast acting decongestant to relieve your stuffy nose. [ sighs ] thanks! [ male announcer ] you're welcome. that's the cold truth! [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus. ♪ oh what a relief it is! ♪ [ male announcer ] to learn more about the cold truth and save $1 visit alka-seltzer on facebook. how they'll live tomorrow. for more than 116 years, ameriprise financial has worked for their clients' futures. helping millions of americans retire on their terms.
5:49 pm
when they want. where they want. doing what they want. ameriprise. the strength of a leader in retirement planning. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you one-to-one. together for your future. ♪ monarch of marketing analysis. with the ability to improve roi through seo all by cob. and from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. i'm going b-i-g. [ male announcer ] good choice business pro. good choice. go national. go like a pro. [ male announcer ] good choice business pro. good choice. music is a universal language. but when i was in an accident... i was worried the health care system spoke a language all its own with unitedhealthcare, i got help that fit my life.
5:50 pm
information on my phone. connection to doctors who get where i'm from. and tools to estimate what my care may cost. so i never missed a beat. we're more than 78,000 people looking out for more than 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. time for citi price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi price rewind automatically searches for the lowest price. and if it finds one, you get refunded the difference. just use your citi card and register your purchase online. have a super sparkly day! ok. [ male announcer ] now all you need is a magic carriage. citi price rewind. start saving at
5:51 pm
welcome back tonight. millions of jenni rivera's fans are mourning her death in a plane crash. her family reeling from the scene. seven people were onboard the learjet. no survivors. it's not yet known what caused the plane to go down.
5:52 pm
fans admired her not only for her strength but her powerful voice. her album helped put rivera on the map, and some believe her legacy could eclipse that of selena's. singer jenni rivera was a household name to millions in the u.s. and mexico. she released her first album in 1999 and her popularity exploded. she went on to sell more than 15 million records, making her one of the most popular latin artists in the past two decades. she recently won two billboard music awards and was nominated for several latin grammy awards. magazine people in espanol named her to the list of 25 most powerful women. known as the diva, her audience was drawn to her powerhouse spanish language performances of
5:53 pm
ballads. speaking of the senate foor today, senator marco rubio said rivera was a real american success story. >> she was a singer in a genre of music that is largely dominated by males. yet she brought a powerful vouz to that genre where she sung frankly about her struggles to give her children a better life in this country. >> it was her openness with her struggles that drew her fans closer. born in long beach, california, to mexican immigrant parents, she struggled through tough financial times and a tumultuous personal life. the single mom at 15 and mother of five, she had been married three times and often joked about how she once sold cans for scrap metal at her family's stand add a los angeles flea market. >> it's very flattering when they tell meme i'm a great artist, a great entertainer, that i can entertain the
5:54 pm
audience, that i can get in the studio and record. but before that, i was a businesswoman. >> she eventual wale ly became owner of her own fragrance company, a clothing line and a fragrance. she also had many admirers. after learning of her death, mario lopez tweeted, what an amazing lady. cool, smart, funny, and talented. such a travacy. god bless her family. many hollywood insiders believe she was on the verge of crossing over to the u.s. market. abc had recently signed her to star in a sitcom and she was writing songs in english and signed with a powerful talent agency. the world rarely sees someone who has had such a profound impact on so many, universal music group said in a statement from her incredibly versatile talent to the way she embraced her fans around the world, jenni was imcomparable. family members were planning to
5:55 pm
travel to mexico as investigators determine what caused the crash. isha is here with the 360 news and business bulletin. >> anderson, a navy s.e.a.l. was killed in afghanistan on saturday in a successful raid to free an american doctor being held officer. nick olis check of monroeville, pennsylvania, was a member of the elite seal team six, according to a u.s. official. that's the same unit that carried out the raid that killed osama bin laden. a 360 follow, bodies found in a wooded area of iowa last week have been identified as 10-year-old lyric cook and her 8-year-old cousin elizabeth collins. they have been missing since july 13th. dominic strauss-kahn has settled a lawsuit with a new york housekeeper who accused him of sexually assaulting her. terms of the settlement have not been released. and the two australian radio deejays who made a prank phone call to the british hospital
5:56 pm
where the duchess of cambridge was staying are speaking out. they talk about the icide of the nurse who put the prank call through to the ward where the duchess was. they said they're heartbroken and sorry and feel horrible for the family. >> i'm just so devastated for them. i'm really feeling for them. just shocking turn of events. if we had any idea that something like this could be even possible to happen, you know, we couldn't see this happening. it was meant to be a prank call. >> it's an interview that's tough to watch in parts, but our thoughts and prayers go out to the family of the nurse who are going through a really tough time. >> to say the least. isha, thanks. we'll be right back. hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira.
5:57 pm
man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here. constipated? yeah. mm. some laxatives like dulcolax can cause cramps. but phillips' caplets don't. they have magnesium. for effective relief of occasional constipation. thanks. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. santho, ho, ho!anta! santa! want to see some magic? watch this! merry chr... (crash) ow! i landed on my keys. did you get that? oh yeah. that was amazing. here you go. that was a fun trick! see? santa's okay.
5:58 pm
walk it off santa. nicely done. share videos instantly with s-beam. on the galaxy siii and note ii. available at best buy and best buy mobile stores. it's part of what you slove about her.essing. but your erectile dysfunction - you know, that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing,
5:59 pm
stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial.